On Fear the Walking Dead, Karen David plays Grace, who succumbs to a walker bite in this episode. In this interview with amc.com, she talks about getting the chance to say Rick's name on screen, fulfilling her husband's dream of playing a zombie, and she reflects on how the show has shaped her as a person and an actor.
Q: Grace is dead! When did you learn that Grace would be dying in this episode? How did you find out?
A: Each season when we have our chat with Ian [Goldberg] and Andrew [Chambliss], they give us a hint of the arc of the next season. Right from when I started [on the show], at the end of each conversation when they finish up, I'll say, "And then she dies?" And they're like, "No! No! No, no, no!" At the end of Season 5, they were like, "No, no, no. She's got a lot more to do." At the end of Season 6, it was like, "No!" Finally, when we got to the end of Season 7, they told me that Grace was going to pass and I think they were a bit nervous. It’s always that way I suppose for producers or showrunners to tell an actor that their character is going. But for me, because I knew the trajectory of her journey from the beginning, it wasn't a surprise. I thought in fact it was more of a surprise that she lasted this long. So, I was like, "Guys, it's okay." Then I said, "Oh wait, the big question is…" and they knew that my husband's dream role for me has always been for me to play a zombie, which is so crazy! I'm like, "What? Why?" So, Ian and Andrew were like, "Well, you will be turning," and I knew how excited Carl would be. It was quite funny because normally an actor is devastated that their character's dying, yet Carl was just so excited, and we were laughing at the idea of me turning into a zombie!
Q: You said you knew the trajectory of her journey from the beginning. Is that because even at the beginning Grace was not 100% healthy? There was always concern around her health and that she could die from the radiation.
A: When they told me about Grace's journey, I had to take deep breaths because I knew it was going to be a very painful journey and hopefully one of growth. The balance between the lightness and the darkness — that’s something that appealed to me so much as an actor. Grace was always on this ticking clock. When we first meet her, she couldn't forgive herself for all the mistakes she made because it came at such a grave cost with the loss of people that she really cared about and loved back at the nuclear plant. Meeting Morgan and the group is what helped her come out of her shell, which gave her this confidence to try and see the light. To give herself a chance to love herself, forgive herself, be kind to herself, to try and do right, and then to turn around and do better. I think that's what's so beautiful about this whole journey for Grace — it's the impact of meeting someone like Morgan, the impact of meeting the likes of June, of Dorie, God rest his soul, of even Strand, of Daniel. I loved every minute of my time with Rubén [Blades] and the episodes that I had with him back in Season 6. Because this is a time of reminiscing, especially as the final season is airing. I look back and think of all these beautiful moments that I've had with everyone. It's just utterly joyous.
Q: What's the challenge of acting like you're dying for an entire episode?
A: As an actor, I had to really break everything down in increments because you don't want it to feel like it's dragged out and painful over a whole hour. It's got to go in increments, so I had to break it down into sections and add those nuances that we live for as actors to show the stages of Grace's decline from the start of the episode to the end. It was important to me to really separate and give each moment its beat and to differentiate from the beginning where it's an assault on all the senses, not only physically but mentally and emotionally. It's everything happening all at once. It's the visceral pain that she's obviously going through and the poison slowly seeping into her body and spreading throughout, making her gradually weaker.
At the same time, it’s a battle to fight for each moment. She’s trying to savor each moment that she has with Morgan and Mo. Savor every opportunity she has to be a mother and to be a family with them, all while trying to embrace her last moment. She'd rather spend whatever time she has left feeling, even for a moment, like everything is normal. That's why she created that bunker where it's this haven in this home. It was so thought out, even the books she chose that she came across. It's like she curated whatever she could find that would have resonance and meaning to Morgan and Mo so that when they all came together in this bunker, it's like they were in their own little world. It's something that Grace never gets to experience with them. It's so heartbreaking that she was never able to have that because of course her daughter is determined to try and turn things around. That was a heartbreaking moment of that stage in Grace's decline. It's so painful that you have these two opposites, where Grace is just wanting to spend family time and Mo wants that as well but, in her mind, it's all about doing whatever she can to save her mother. The realization at the end that it's not going to happen is just so utterly heartbreaking and devastating for both of them.
Each of those moments and stages were so natural for me as an actor to play because we all knew it was the final season. When Grace is on the walkie with Morgan — and even now it's getting me a little choked up — I said to Lennie, "Gosh, this is my final scene with you." That's us together as a team, as Karen and Lennie. It's our final moments together and all of that emotion on top of what was happening in the storyline just made it very natural and very easy for me to just break and to just feel everything. It was like this symphony and this cacophony of mixed emotions that just made every moment worth so much to me as an actor and as Grace too.
Q: I understood Mo's motivation, but I feel Grace got a little cheated because she didn't get to live out her final days with Morgan and Mo at her haven at the repeater station. What do you think?
A: I know! It's like, "What? They couldn't even get this chance to be in the bunker, to feel just a moment." Because I can count on one hand the amount of times that there’s been some laughter, levity, and lightness for Grace and Morgan. I feel like these two have been through the worst of the worst, so I was just heartbroken for them that they couldn't have that moment together as a family in the bunker. I was devastated that Morgan couldn't be with her physically. That reminds me of the moment when Morgan gets out of the canoe to create a distraction because PADRE is catching up to them. That moment when Morgan steps out of that canoe and she holds his hand, I think, in Grace's mind, she knows, "I don't think I'm ever going to see him again." That this is it and right now I need to focus now on our daughter because that's what he would want. Morgan genuinely thinks he will see Grace at the bunker.
Q: You had that goodbye scene with Morgan in Episode 5, which was over a walkie. Was Lennie James really on the other side of the walkie during that scene?
A: He really was. We never want to call it in. We want to be there for each other. And it's such a big scene between Morgan and Grace. I came to set specifically for that day when Lennie was filming that because I wanted him to hear my voice and to be there. For such a big moment like that, it was so important to me to be there, and I was so grateful that Lennie was there for me too because it really made all the difference in the world. We could be there for each other in those final moments together as Morgan and Grace, as our characters, but also together as dearest friends.
Q: Tell me about being a zombie! What is the makeup like? And how did you learn to act and sound like a walker? I want to know it all!
A: First of all, full disclosure. I’m not going to sugarcoat anything. I flipping hated it! I was like, "Okay, this is it. I'm going to do it." But the process of it, I hated it. This is where the princess, if there was ever a princess in me, came out, and I was just like, "Eww, I don't like this makeup!" I couldn't even look at myself. That's how good our special effects team are. They're so good! It's down to the smells of the paint and it smells like zombie. Because I was just freshly turned, I didn't have the prosthetics to deal with, and I'm kind of thankful for that because filming in Savannah in the summertime is unbearable. The humidity is so intense. It made me appreciate all our extras, what they have to go through. I just applaud them so much because they're such troopers and they get on with things. It was very funny because I remember when I was talking to Heather [Cappiello], our director of that episode, she was telling me that at some point they would have to put blood in my mouth and I was like, "Ewww!" I'm the biggest wuss. I fully admit it. And I'm like, "Blood? In my mouth? I can't bear it!" And it was so funny because everyone was laughing with me.
Normally, there's a lot of prep work that I want to do when I’m getting ready for an episode. It's like painting. You're sketching things out. You're adding tones in different textures and colors to what you want to give performance-wise. But when it came to being a zombie, I didn't want to overthink it because I didn't want the way Karen thinks to affect me. I just wanted to dive right in and do it. So, that's exactly what I did and I'm glad. Our stunt coordinators, James [Armstrong] and Jack [Barnett], were just so wonderful guiding me into getting into that physicality of being a zombie. I embraced the fact that she's newly turned, so things are going to be very awkward and new for her and new for me as an actor playing that. But in between takes it was hilarious. I'm drinking tons of water, spitting out this colored blood which is so gross, and everyone was laughing. I said, "This is so funny to see myself. I almost don't recognize myself at all as a zombie. I feel like Casper the Friendly Ghost or Karen the Friendly Zombie!" I had to remind myself that I had to be really horrifyingly scary, especially in those moments where she goes after Mo.
You sounded convincing too, as a walker.
I didn't even know that that could come out of me! I remember them coaching me because you couldn't make it like a "grrraw." It's just like this, "hhaa." It is so strange. And I was drinking copious amounts of Throat Coat [tea] and having lozenges. Again, it makes me appreciate even the voiceover actors that come in later in post-production to add to the sounds as well. If you're doing a long five-minute zombie scene, you've got to kind of loop on repeat those sounds and noises. I had to practice, but I think the trick of it was not overthinking it. And obviously, when Heather says, "Cut," there's moments of laughter and sort of disbelief and saying, "What am I doing? The things we do to pay the bills!" My husband is just ridiculously excited to watch these scenes and I told him, "You know, that's a very different approach. You think you'd be sad that Grace has passed away, but instead you're very excited about her being a zombie!"
Q: Can you talk about Grace's mindset when she's talking to Mo at the end of the Season 8 premiere when Grace and Morgan are telling Mo she was returning to PADRE? Has she bought in so much to PADRE that she believes she's doing the right thing by Mo?
A: To see the evolution of Grace from the very beginning of Season 5 when she’s at the nuclear plant to now Grace as a mother was such a joy for me to play as an actor. Because now in Episode 1 [of Season 8], we're seeing Grace as a mama bear. To love is to protect. To love is to let go. To love is knowing that you can't place yourself first. You have a child to think about now. The future was always in her mind and she was always thinking about keeping Morgan and Mo together as a family. To a certain extent, that's what's really driven Grace and kept Grace alive for this long. We come into the start of the season and it's seven years later. It's hinted at that Morgan and Grace haven't seen each other in a very long time, that they're kind of estranged but maybe not necessarily out of choice. They can't let Shrike and PADRE know that they're so invested in each other and as a family. If she knew that, they'd never see each other again. It's almost as if they had to play a part in order to protect Mo, and for them at the start of the season in that first episode, it’s in Mo's best interest for her safety and well-being. She's better off being within the walls of PADRE because there she will be protected, even though the ethos and the whole belief system of how they operate goes against everything that Morgan and Grace stand for.
At that moment, it's this painful struggle for a mother to be finally reunited with her daughter, who she probably has only seen from a distance. She’s so close and yet so far away in that moment and it kills her. It kills everything inside her, but she knows that she has to muster up the strength to push her daughter away. That's why she has to be a bit harsh in that moment; she's trying to force the separation to make it easier by taking out the emotion, or at least trying to. She struggles but she tries. She has to get on with it because time is of the essence and she now knows, unbeknownst to everyone in the first episode, that she is in fact dying and she hasn't told Morgan or Mo yet. But in this moment, the clock is ticking for her and it's almost like she's telling herself, "You've got to pull yourself together and you've got to make sure that these two people who you love and care about are safe and that's all that matters."
PADRE did rob them of so much. Grace even says that at one point. But they had no choice.
It's so sad. I remember filming that scene and the pain and the heartbreak behind the eyes for both of them, because they've wasted so much time and we can't go back now. You really feel for these characters. Looking back now on this whole journey, I feel so much for Grace. This is a character I'm playing that's really had a very, very painful and sad life, which makes her exit all the more meaningful for me as an actor playing her because I feel like she was finally at peace. She had the opportunity to be a wife and a mother and to have a family, which is all she ever wanted, especially going through such immense loss in Season 5 with the people she loved and cared about, including the father of her child, and not allowing herself to open up back then. So in those final moments with Mo, in those final moments of Morgan over the walkie, I was happy that she finally allowed herself to love and be loved and to have this family. She was finally at peace and that was the greatest comfort for me. Because otherwise I was just so consumed by such sadness for her.
Q: How did it feel to be part of the OG The Walking Dead as it were in Episode 4 because of all the associations in that episode with Rick, Jenny, and Duane?
A: So many gifts of Easter eggs that I hope are going to really excite the fans. For me, I was completely fangirling at every moment because I get to hear the name "Rick" coming out of my mouth. I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is so cool!" And tying that in, going back to where it all began for Morgan, in the same house. Our set designers are amazing [because they recreated the set from Atlanta]. I felt like I was in Atlanta. I felt like I was in that house, in that original space. I think for Grace to finally get to know even more of Morgan's past and have Morgan opening up and allowing Grace to step into his world from the past was a big deal for her. She would never have thought that she would be back in that place with Morgan, that place where Jenny was, where Duane was. And right from Season 5 in that shopping mall episode, she was trying to encourage Morgan to go back to the source of his pain, which was too difficult for him to do at that point. To see him now doing that she knew it was such a big deal for Morgan and she's so proud of him because it's not easy for him to be reliving his pain and his past. For her to be included in that meant the world to her and just made her love and understand Morgan even more. It was all the feels in that moment again, to have it come full circle, with his new family saying goodbye to his old family and moving forward with them. Only for that all to be taken away!
Yes, when that zombie bit her. I was like, "Noooooooo!"
I know! So close! So close! But of course, that happens to Morgan and Grace because this is The Walking Dead Universe.
Q: You've been on this show since Season 5. What has playing Grace all these years meant to you?
A: I have graduated from the school of The Walking Dead Universe. I have graduated from the school of Lennie James, of Colman Domingo, Jenna Elfman, Rubén, Austin [Amelio], Christine [Evangelista], Danay [Garcia]. Every single one of them. I have graduated from this amazing five years with the most super-talented human beings. And I feel — you know, Kim Dickens, Garret Dillahunt, all of them — I just feel so honored that I got to play with such incredibly, insanely talented actors. They have now become a part of who I am as a person, a part of who I am as an actor. I feel like they are now intrinsically in the fabric of my DNA, and I remind myself of that now when I move forward and walk onto new sets. I think to myself gosh, I have this amazing team of family behind me, walking with me in spirit and in my heart. I remind myself of that and it just brings the biggest smile to my face and fills my heart with such gratitude. We get to play and tell these amazing stories as actors. We get to meet so many different kinds of people from all over the world and have these amazing friendships and relationships, and I feel so blessed for that. It's one thing to play a character like Grace — and I've learned so much from her as an actor and she's made me a better person and a better actor for it — but at the same time I also feel so grateful for this new family of human beings that are now in my life moving forward. It's the greatest gift that I can take with me on this journey.

Full episodes of Fear the Walking Dead are available to stream on amc.com (with a cable provider login), the AMC apps for mobile and devices, and AMC+ subscribers get early access to episodes on Thursdays. AMC+ is available at amcplus.com or through the new AMC+ app available on iPhone, iPad, Android, Fire TV, Apple TV, and Roku. AMC+ can also be accessed through a variety of providers, including AppleTV, Prime Video Channels, DirectTV, Dish, Roku Channel, Sling, and Xfinity. Sign up for AMC+ now.